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Previously Played: Andrew Wommack - The Problem Is Our Unbelief Previously Played: "The Problem Is Our Unbelief" by Andrew Wommack Last played at 3:49am on Tuesday, November 10th 2009 Andrew Wommack Ministriessome truth discovered - Factnet Forum FACTnetCrown drops charges in ‘cult` kidnapping in Canada... posted by David Pike No excerpt [] [] The Pay-to-Post subscription service is now online and free for 90 days. See the for more details and how this will affect you when free posting is over. -- The FACTNet Volunteers, Staff & Management Click on the following link to help and donate to FACTNet's tax deductible mission: > > > Andrew Wommack Ministriessome truth discovered Tip: Got a Discussion Board Complaint? Don’t contact US without reading our newest announcement first! User NameRemember Me?Password Religious Leaders Organizational Leaders TV Evangelists Pastors Ministers Personal Ministries Christian Religious Leaders, Organizational Leaders, TV Evangelists, Pastors , Ministers, Personal Ministries Search ForumsShow Threads Show PostsGo to Page... Page 1 of 31 # 05-31-2007, 01:57 PMbachmanGuest Posts: n/a I was going to do a book/artic I was going to do a book/article about Andrew Wommack and he was interested in the idea. I got a call from one of his representatives and I said, For years, Andrew has told these amazing stories and the idea that his son was raised from the dead -- that must have been front-page news and I want to get the documentation for that. Well, the fellow admitted there IS NONE. There was no death certificate. Andrew's son had overdosed and the doctor pronounced him dead, put him in the hospital morgue and put a toe-tag on him. The rest of the story is how Andrew says---he and his wife Jamie went to the hospital and prayed for their son who rose off the table and came back from the dead. Hmmmm. The fellow on the phone said that the doctors won't be interviewed because they don't want to be portrayed as wrongly calling someone dead who wasn't dead (in their eyes) or having to admit someone was raised from the dead. Overall, very sad and I wonder how many other miraclesare really misunderstandings. Comments? bachman # 05-31-2007, 02:07 PMdgate007Guest Posts: n/a Hey Bach: These kinds of stHey Bach: These kinds of stories are very hard to prove but it may have happened. Andrew has a good reputation. In 1989, I dropped dead in front of the fireplace after being up for 4 days on a cocaine binge. I worked thru the Medellian drug cartel in California as a drug dealer in Michigan and at the age of 30 my body just gave out. I experienced momentary torment beyond description and then found myself somehow in my body and standing up. For the next 2 and 1/2 hours I was in the Glory of God. No, not in Heaven but in my home. It is beyond description. I was totally sober and God took me into revelation, visions and spoke to me on a variety of topics. I can not prove one bit of this but...look who gave his heart to Jesus and is still serving him 18 years later. David dgate007 # 05-31-2007, 02:18 PMbachmanGuest Posts: n/a I'm a supporter of Andrew I'm a supporter of Andrew and don't believe he is lying but was VERY disappointed that the story doesn't really hold up upon close examination. I worked in the health care field and if someone is dead they are pronounced dead at a certain time and the doctor signs that off and THEN the body is taken away. That's a law in every state. No one is just shuttled off to the hospital morgue without proper paperwork. And they are NEVER toe-tagged without the paperwork--that toe-tag is for the funneral home to double check the identity of the person. I take nothing away from your personal story, David but if you claimed to have raised someone from the dead--in a modern day hospital!--and you tell that story many, many, many times...then I would expect there to be a doctor/doctors, nurses and staff administrator to say, We don't understand it, but it happened. Oh well. Obviously, no article/book to be written! bachman # 05-31-2007, 03:54 PMmartaGuest Posts: n/a I would think that if a personI would think that if a person had been declared dead by a doctor in a hospital, there would be some evidence to support it. Isn't it against the law for doctors to change a patient's charts/records? If so, wouldn't there have to be some notation on a patient's chart that they had been declared dead, even if it turned out not to be the case? This is just an opinion, but I have heard a lot of Wommacks stories and I get the feeling sometimes that he likes to exaggerate to make a point. I hope I'm wrong. marta # 05-31-2007, 04:14 PMbachmanGuest Posts: n/a I agree, Marta -- declaring soI agree, Marta -- declaring someone dead is serious and that's why I was so concerned over the conversation I had on the phone. His answer was that, Of course, the doctor's won't say he was dead because they would look foolish. So I said, Okay, but who are the doctors so I can find out what DID happen? If the son was taken to the morgue (and now I say IF) then I know where would be a paper trail. But the spokesperson said they (the docs) won't talk about it. I wonder the same things when ministers claim, So and so was healed of AIDS and CANCER, etc. To me, if ANYONE has been 100% healed of AIDS -- or cancer, or raised from the dead! -- then it WOULD be front page news! But as I posted, the closer to get to the facts, the fuzzier they become. This revelation doesn't take anything away from my appreciation for Andrew's ministry--but I also wonder why he has to keep making this statement over and over and over again if it doesn't seem to be something that can be proven. bachman # 05-31-2007, 06:00 PMjbkremsGuest Posts: n/a Bachman, Andrew DOES have aBachman, Andrew DOES have a good reputation, and several members of my church (and good friends of mine) follow him and his teachings. In fact, the director of our prison ministry is a Wommack partner, and goes to at least one of his conferences each year. The fact there was no death certificate, Bachman, seems to be more of an issue for the doctor (who could have very well issued one), and not for Andrew Wommack. jbkrems # 06-01-2007, 12:32 PMmartaGuest Posts: n/a bachman, I respect your inbachman, I respect your integrity. marta # 06-01-2007, 06:58 PMjbkremsGuest Posts: n/a Bachman, Oh, I'm sorry Bachman, Oh, I'm sorry --- I thought you had contacted them, and not the other way around. jbkrems # 06-01-2007, 07:07 PMgrimaldiGuest Posts: n/a Bachman...I don't know whoBachman...I don't know who you write for but I find I agree with your comments and outlook on ministry that you have added to this site. If you have need of something to write, an investigative expose on Tom Brock would prove interesting to MANY around the world. We may know some of the same people from the New Life House days in Thousand Oaks... grimaldi # 06-02-2007, 06:36 AMtrsrinheavenGuest Posts: n/a The body was not logged into tThe body was not logged into the morgue because Andrew gave strict orders to wait for them until they get to the hospital. He also gave those orders to his other son who was there. His son is now currently married and has made Andrew and his wife grandparents. The story is factual and true. If anyone knows Andrew then they would know he has always been LOW KEY about promoting anything. Having doctors and nurses in my immediate family hospitals often WAIT to move the body and allow family to spend time with their love one. In this case the son came back to life before the put him in the morgue. If Andrew errors it usually has been on the side of him and his ministry being a well kept secret. He doesn't promote anything much. He just promotes Gods love and grace. I know top staff and they shared the story and the amazing situation. Currently there is another low key minister in Mexico who has had over 400 eyewitness dead people raised back to life. For some documentation check out Sid Roths website who has some video on many miraculous supernatural manifestations of Gods demnstration power and love in action. trsrinheaven # 06-02-2007, 07:34 AMbachmanGuest Posts: n/a Tris, your information is someTris, your information is somewhat incorrect. And, with all due respect, remember I was ASKED to do the article and have the first-hand information. And I am NOT saying that what Andrew has reported is not the way it happened. I am ONLY saying that there are no records that his son died. Let me clarify a couple things: 1) The body was not logged into the morgue because Andrew gave strict orders to wait for them until they get to the hospital. INCORRECT--Andrew has ALWAYS stated that the body WAS in the morgue and it WAS toe-tagged. And so did the person at Andrew's who called me. When someone dies, there is a death certificate and time of death called. The body is toe-tagged and moved to the morgue UNLESS the family wants it left in the room. If the body is in the room, NO TOE TAG because the ID is still certain. Again, the body was in the morgue with a toe-tag because he had been moved. Andrew has ALWAYS said his son's body was toe-tagged and body was turning black from lack of blood circulation. 2) His son is now currently married and has made Andrew and his wife grandparents. TRUE and I saw him in Oct--but not sure of your point. We all agree he's alive! 3) He has always been LOW KEY about promoting anything. WELL...actually, as I discussed with the fellow on the phone, Andrew talks about this event (as he should) on maybe 70% of his teachings. Which is why I was going to lead with it. As we both know, I like and support Andrew--and they like and support me which is why they contacted ME to do the article, so please remember this. Again, the fellow from Andrew's ministry ADMITTED there are no documents for this story, which is why I backed away from it. Some will say, So what? Andrew has integrity (I agree) so write the story as he said it happened. But that, to me, just isn't ethical. We serve a big, mighty and wonderful God and when He raises people from the dead, then I believe it can be simply proven -- in this day and age -- that 1) the person was really dead and 2) they are alive. If a hospital in Colorado in the year 2002 can't provide documents that a patient there died and was raised from the dead, then I have to question the event. bachman # 06-02-2007, 11:16 AMtrsrinheavenGuest Posts: n/a No Andrew said it was toe taggNo Andrew said it was toe tagged not in the morgue. He was talking to his son on the phone as he drove into Colorado Springs from his home. He always stated he told his son not to allow them to take the body to the morgue. He did not want the body taken out of the room. Either way several people document this. Andrew and his right hand people would have no reason not to give out documentation. Andrew was upset about his child having some problems, his desire to work as a tatto artist etc., and other things prior to turning around his life. Another testimony is his son working with and running into a tatoo artist his son liked and admired and he turned out to be a Christian and counseled him. Bachman due to legalities and lible slander etc. there is much to raise doubts about you having permission to write anything about Andrew let alone a book about anyone living. Find me any hospital that document someone being raised from the dead other than a short time code emergency situation of a few minutes. They simply will not due to highly restrictive policy, insurance problems, and legal issues risking litigation and many lawsuit issues. trsrinheaven # 06-02-2007, 12:22 PMbachmanGuest Posts: n/a grimaldi, I'm currently wrgrimaldi, I'm currently writing a book about Larry Hill's Church of the Risen Christ cult from the late 1960s/early 70s--it was home of the All Saved Freak Band. Terrible abuse but a great story of God's power to deliver. I have tracked down more than 80 (!) references and primary sources, so it's a real blessing plus the former members of the cult are excited to come out -- most are still believers. So the idea of doing ANOTHER book about someone (Tom Brock) like Larry Hill....well, tell me your New Life House experiences! Any names you remember? I remember a fellow Dave _____ who had blond hair (bald on top) and a beard; nice guy. And John Wales (who was a little off) --- anyway, let me know what you know/who you know! And Tris, I'm sticking by my story--your version doesn't match what I know/was told. Also, it was the HOSPITAL morgue his son was in---I didn't mean to imply he was removed from the hospital. He was taken out of the room which meant he needed to be toe-taged for identification purposes, and then moved to the hospital morgue which is where Andrew and Jamie prayed for him. Andrew also said he was naked on the slab and his body was black from the blood not circulating. Regardless, the important thing is that Jesus WAS raised and we shall be, too! bachman # 06-02-2007, 06:12 PMgrimaldiGuest Posts: n/a Bachman...you are remembering Bachman...you are remembering DaveMerisko from the New Life House days. Great guy and still have contact via his friends. You may also remember DannyMiller, ByronMoline, DannyYoung. At bottom there is a link to a couple pics of those days. Scroll down to to see them (2). You'll remember Dave immediately. DannyYoung is the other. Tom B___..in brief...stories of assault and rape during New Life House days (believeable), caught 3 times for sexual misconduct while pastoring...left town numerous times to escape the heat. Now has returned to Ventura again. During time away from Ventura he started a ministry Wave of Life in Hawaii with an accompanying school with national known leaders as teachers. He bases it out of Ventura now- travels worldwide teaching. The school (called ESS) is based out of Wash. State somewhere. Somehow he has made his way into the circle of internationally known worship leaders and ministry leaders and counts them as friends & peers. None have a clue who the guy really is. He is ministers in Europe and all around the States. Hard to give all info here. Have confirmed via 1 on 1 with victim of a fairly recent and long adulterous relationship and, unbelievably, recent rape...all while ministering the gospel and teaching marriage seminars (his cover). Surrounds himself with bigwigs so any story against him looks ridiculous. A very bad dude. He has cut a swath through Ventura County (several women just in this county alone) leaving scores damaged and disallusioned. This is consistent behaviour for all 30 plus years of ministry..don't think he'll be stopped until someone brings legal charges against him. He is skilled at deception. I wish I could hire a detective to find all info. He's married to Suzie over 30 years, who is his enabler... the usual story. Tom has escaped exposure by playing the victim of bad people out to get his ministry, or blaming all on satan's attack on his ministry or crying don't touch God's annointed. He dances out of all trouble laying blame on all but his own actions. Nothing new in the church these days I guess...Ack...As The Ministry World Turns... Below is Tom's website. He quit updating it when he found people were trailing him and getting the truth out to the places he speaks at. More trail covering. - 2 pictures of old New Life House days...the man you remember is in one. (Ministry website - a couple years outdated but you can see what he's about) (Tom's WOL ministry school and the man running it. I feel for this Steve Crosby guy as he has no idea who Tom really is. Known him only since Tom left Hawaii where he got himself in big time infidelity trouble. : This was a huge worship stadium event held in Berlin last summer. Tom was one of the planners and listed under endorsements. You can see from the names he has wormed his way into good company. A friend of this big UK Ministry. His articles are listed under the browse articles section. Also teaches there Despite the junk...I still love God and serve Him. grimaldi # 09-04-2007, 07:18 PMbachmanGuest Posts: n/a UPDATE: September 4, 2007 JUPDATE: September 4, 2007 Just received Andrew's Sept DVD and it was a Q&A with Jamie, his wife. 1) She twice mentions how much Kenneth Copeland's teaching helped them in their early days of learning the faith walk and they used to attend his Ft Worth meetings each month 2) She said that when their son died and they went to the hospital, when they arrived we were told that he (their son) had come back. No mention of the toe-tag, the son turning black etc or the other things Andrew always says. (BTW, a corpse doesn't turn black -- the blood all gathers on the buttock and back (if you are laid out) so the BACK of the body is black, not the whole body.) Jamie also said that people ask why she always laughs at the stories Andrew tells and she said, Because they always change! I still support his ministry as you all know--even asked him to write an introduction to my book about the Church of the Risen Christ cult, IN A DARK PLACE -- but I would love for him to tell one single version of his son's death/resurrection! bachman # 09-05-2007, 07:35 AMmartaGuest Posts: n/a Andrew Wommack is a storytelleAndrew Wommack is a storyteller ... he embellishes his stories ... which is probably NOT a good thing when it comes to giving testimonies. marta # 09-05-2007, 07:45 AMtrsrinheavenGuest Posts: n/a bachman, Andrew just explaibachman, Andrew just explained the son dieing on his national tv show about a week ago. You just have bits and pieces. Why don't you tell him to produce a video of his son being raised from the dead with Doctor interviews and documentation prrof to dispel all the fools detractors. It would be a great witness. I must also commend Andrew for GIVING away all his teachings FREE OF CHARGE on his website. Anyone can get them for FREE! just download them to your computer at No other ministry does that with ALL their teachings. He is one of the best stewards of Gods money. Just like many people he got some things from Copeland and other ministries a while back. Copeland teaches pablum, lives in multimillion dollar mansions, owns a fleet of airplanes that wastes offering money taking trips to ski and island resorts. He is a flat out bad steward of Gods offering money and not wise or good ground to plant seed in. Andrew is no supporter of the idiot bad steward offering money wasting Copelands $20,000,000 million dollar airplanes like Copeland has to go to just 8 meetings a year. Andrew goes to three times that many meetings and does not desire to wast Gods money on a $5,000 an hour gas cost airplane. Every place is serviced by commercial airplane. trsrinheaven # 09-05-2007, 07:46 AMtrsrinheavenGuest Posts: n/a bachman, Andrew just explaibachman, Andrew just explained the son dieing on his national tv show about a week ago. You just have bits and pieces. Why don't you tell him to produce a video of his son being raised from the dead with Doctor interviews and documentation prrof to dispel all the fools detractors. It would be a great witness. I must also commend Andrew for GIVING away all his teachings FREE OF CHARGE on his website. Anyone can get them for FREE! just download them to your computer at No other ministry does that with ALL their teachings. He is one of the best stewards of Gods money. Just like many people he got some things from Copeland and other ministries a while back. Copeland teaches pablum, lives in multimillion dollar mansions, owns a fleet of airplanes that wastes offering money taking trips to ski and island resorts. He is a flat out bad steward of Gods offering money and not wise or good ground to plant seed in. Andrew is no supporter of the idiot bad steward offering money wasting Copelands $20,000,000 million dollar airplanes like Copeland has to go to just 8 meetings a year. Andrew goes to three times that many meetings and does not desire to waste Gods money on a $5,000 an hour gas costing airplane. Every place is serviced by commercial airplane. trsrinheaven # 09-05-2007, 01:53 PMbachmanGuest Posts: n/a Hi Trsinheaven-- If you folHi Trsinheaven-- If you followed the first thread I started, you'll see that Wommack contacted ME to write an article about him for CHARISMA. But there was ZERO documentation about his son rising from the dead. No doctors because they said the son was NOT dead and it would look dumb for the hospital to go around stating people were dead if they were not. It was just interesting hearing Jamie tell the story -- Andrew often has said on audiotapes that He was all black with a toetag when we got there which means he'd be in the hospital morgue. But Jamie says, When we got to the hospital, we were told he was okay/had come back. He had taken a drug overdose so what I think happened was that he had gone into respiratory failure and the nurse or someone had THOUGHT he had died or the something. Regardless of what really happened, thank God their son is alive today. I just wish that the story was accurate. It was nice that Jamie gave the Copelands their due, saying how much they ministered to her and Andrew in their early days. bachman # 09-06-2007, 06:55 AMmartaGuest Posts: n/a [i]I just wish that the story I just wish that the story was accurate. Yep ... accuracy, honesty, truthfulness ... all good things. Andrew is no supporter of the idiot bad steward offering money wasting Copelands $20,000,000 million dollar airplanes like Copeland has to go to just 8 meetings a year. 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Now Playing: Last 50 songs played: Andrew Wommack - Hypocrites Love To Pray Andrew Wommack - Prayer Is A Process Andrew Wommack - Speak To The Mountain Andrew Wommack - The Primary Purpose Of Prayer Andrew Wommack - Effect Of Praise On The Believer Andrew Wommack - The Reality Of Faith Andrew Wommack - Grace And Faith Andrew Wommack - Aggressive Authority Andrew Wommack - The Battle Is In Your Mind Andrew Wommack - Authority Come From The Law Andrew Wommack - How Does Satan Fight Us Andrew Wommack - What Authority Does Satan Have Andrew Wommack - Who's The Enemy Michael Jackson - Man In The Mirror Andrew Wommack - The Problem Is Our Unbelief Andrew Wommack - Do You Need More Faith Andrew Wommack - The Triumphant Procession Andrew Wommack - It's In The Spiritual Realm Andrew Wommack - We're Already Blessed Andrew Wommack - The Basics Of Spirit Soul And Body Andrew Wommack - The Spirit Vs. The Flesh Andrew Wommack - The Faith Of God Mind Of Christ Andrew Wommack - Eternal Redemption Charles Capps - 01 The Tongue A Creative Force Bill Winston - 01 How to Develop Great Faith Kenneth Hagin - 01 How to Write Your Own Ticket With God Dave Roberson - 01 Speaking in Tongues Andrew Wommack - Split Personality Andrew Wommack - God Is Good God Is Faithful Andrew Wommack - The Lord Is Always On Andrew Wommack - The Importance Of The Gifts Andrew Wommack - The End Of Self Is The Beginning Of God Andrew Wommack - How To Overcome Doubt Andrew Wommack - Walking By Faith Andrew Wommack - How To Receive A Miracle III Andrew Wommack - The Faith Of God Andrew Wommack - How To Receive A Miracle II Andrew Wommack - How To Receive A Miracle I Andrew Wommack - Ministering Unto God Andrew Wommack - God's Sheep Do Hear His Voice Andrew Wommack - Effect Of Praise On The Lord Andrew Wommack - Effect Of Praise On The Devil Andrew Wommack - Who You Are In The Spirit Andrew Wommack - What Pleases God Andrew Wommack - Grace And The Sovereignty Of God Andrew Wommack - Grace A Done Deal Andrew Wommack - Entering The Rest Andrew Wommack - God Loves Me Unconditionally Andrew Wommack - Grace Through Faith Andrew Wommack - With Authority Comes Responsibility Part 1 1850 songs have been archived. |
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